Go Back   Just Us Nurses! A Forum for Nurses. Learn, Share, Discuss, Conversate. The Choice is Yours. Join Us Today! > Nursing Today > General Nursing Discussions

User Tag List

Like Tree11Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:25 PM
DutchgirlRN's Avatar
Owner/Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,923
Thanks: 3,899
Thanked 7,713 Times in 4,409 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Default Physician Assisted Suicide

A few months ago my Mother's best friend in Holland, who she has known for 70+ years decided to end her life. She called my Mother the day before to say goodbye. My Mother didn't believe she would go through it but she did. Her son called the next day to tell my Mother that she was gone. The doctor came to the house. Handed her a small cup of whatever. She drank it, laid down, was peaceful, said goodbye to her children and in a few minutes she was gone. She had no terminal illness. She was 90 years old and tired of living and tired of hearing her kids fuss about who was gonna take care of Mama! I cannot believe such a thing is possible. I can understand it in the case of a terminal illness but just because you're tired of living? She was still living alone and taking care of herself, cooking, shopping, etc.

Physician assisted suicide is legal in 5 states, Oregon, Vermont, Washington state and California. It is available in Montana only via court decision. Patients must have a terminal illness with an estimated 6 months or less left to live. The physician cannot be prosecuted for giving a patient medications to hasten their death.

Physician assisted suicide is different from euthanasia because it is defined as assisting a person with their death, to end their suffering, but is done so w/o the backing of legal authority. Physician assisted suicide requires a written request from the patient within 15 days of the event taking place and of course they must be of sound mind.

I suppose an adult should be allowed to make this decision for themselves. It still kinda creeps me out when it happens without a terminal illness. Glad terminal illness is required in the US.
Melinurse likes this.
__________________
Send a private message to DutchgirlRN


Joanna MSN, APRN, FNP-BC

Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #2  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:13 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default Physician Assisted Suicide

I agree it should not be used for someone just tired of life- we all get tired of life but that's how it goes you just keep taking it a day at a time. I do agree with it if it is for a very sick pt that only has months to live and if it is going to be a painful death-I would want to be able to decide for myself how I want to live my life and not have to suffer and watch my family suffer from me dying it is not a pretty thing and I would not want my family to remember me like that. I had a grandfather who died in pain and I was there thru it all and now that all I see when I think about him. Pt's choice if less then 6 months to live and going to be a painful death.
Melinurse likes this.
Reply With Quote Go to top
The Following User Says Thank You to Winston2001 For This Useful Post:
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #3  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:09 PM
Ruby Vee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: On a boat on the Chesapeake
Posts: 361
Thanks: 25
Thanked 145 Times in 99 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN View Post
A few months ago my Mother's best friend in Holland, who she has known for 70+ years decided to end her life. She called my Mother the day before to say goodbye. My Mother didn't believe she would go through it but she did. Her son called the next day to tell my Mother that she was gone. The doctor came to the house. Handed her a small cup of whatever. She drank it, laid down, was peaceful, said goodbye to her children and in a few minutes she was gone. She had no terminal illness. She was 90 years old and tired of living and tired of hearing her kids fuss about who was gonna take care of Mama! I cannot believe such a thing is possible. I can understand it in the case of a terminal illness but just because you're tired of living? She was still living alone and taking care of herself, cooking, shopping, etc.

Physician assisted suicide is legal in 5 states, Oregon, Vermont, Washington state and California. It is available in Montana only via court decision. Patients must have a terminal illness with an estimated 6 months or less left to live. The physician cannot be prosecuted for giving a patient medications to hasten their death.

Physician assisted suicide is different from euthanasia because it is defined as assisting a person with their death, to end their suffering, but is done so w/o the backing of legal authority. Physician assisted suicide requires a written request from the patient within 15 days of the event taking place and of course they must be of sound mind.

I suppose an adult should be allowed to make this decision for themselves. It still kinda creeps me out when it happens without a terminal illness. Glad terminal illness is required in the US.
I have a lot of difficulty with physician assisted suicide. I've lived in Washington and Oregon, my sister lives in California. I personally would not want to have anything to do with assisting someone's suicide. It's a slippery slope, as your mother's friend illustrates.

I'm Catholic, and I suppose that may color my views.

When I was in my early 20s, my father developed cancer of the palate from years of smoking pipes, chewing tobacco and rolling his own cigarettes. (No filter.) The doctors told him he had a few months to live. My father, as perhaps I have shared in other stories, wasn't the bravest individual in the world. I remember him showing me the .357 revolver he was carrying around from the moment of his diagnosis. "When the pain gets too bad, I'm using this," he said, showing it to me. "I'm not going to die slow like my father." My mother dragged him to the Mayo clinic for a second opinion. They operated and removed a small speck of cancer from his palate, and told him he'd make a full recovery. The first doctors were wrong about the prognosis. I imagine this story colors my views as well.

Most patients who are end-stage with a terminal illness have plenty of medications in their bathrooms. Anyone who is truly determined to choose their own time and place for dying surely has a cocktail of medications at home that will accomplish that without involving others. It may even be mistaken for an accidental overdose, which would make it easier for their families to deal with. If you don't have the medication at home, ask your physician for something to help you sleep, and then swallow the whole prescription at once. People don't want to do it that way because they want it to be easy -- they want someone to show up at their home with a little cup of medicine that they drink and they die. Suicide shouldn't BE easy. It should come only at the time of your life when doing anything BUT committing suicide would be unthinkably difficult or impossible. And the person who wants to choose their own death simply transfers the guilt to someone else.

I suppose, however, that my argument against physician assisted suicide is closely akin to my argument against anti-abortion legislation: If you don't believe in abortion, don't HAVE one. So perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite.

Ouch, that stings!
kwagner_51 likes this.
__________________
༄❀Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society❀༄

Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #4  
Old 11-29-2015, 02:30 PM
GrnTea's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Out in the country
Posts: 900
Thanks: 106
Thanked 294 Times in 225 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

I believe that your life is yours, and no one else's to control or mandate.

You have no idea whether your 90-yr-old relative had just had enough. Well, actually, I guess you do. She told you.

I don't think it's fair to require a "terminal diagnosis," whatever that means. Malignancy? Alzheimer's? MS? SCI? Life is a terminal diagnosis. See how you feel at 90 (or at 80, or 70...) -- you might very well wake up one day, decide you've had enough of it, and be willing and hoping to go peacefully to sleep. Until you've been there, with the infirmities and indignities of great age, I don't think you can judge her decision. Sounds pretty damn good to me, actually.

And yes, I believe that unremitting severe depression and severe unremitting chronic pain meet this criterion, too. It's your body, you get to decide.

The "Don't like abortion? Don't have one" analogy is quite apt.
__________________
A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow drafts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again. ... A. Pope

Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society
Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #5  
Old 11-29-2015, 03:07 PM
crunch's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas, have lived all over
Posts: 3,090
Thanks: 225
Thanked 2,093 Times in 1,401 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

If you are sane and not clinically depressed it should be your own choice. Period.
Reply With Quote Go to top
The Following User Says Thank You to crunch For This Useful Post:
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #6  
Old 11-29-2015, 03:18 PM
Ruby Vee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: On a boat on the Chesapeake
Posts: 361
Thanks: 25
Thanked 145 Times in 99 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnTea View Post
I believe that your life is yours, and no one else's to control or mandate.

You have no idea whether your 90-yr-old relative had just had enough. Well, actually, I guess you do. She told you.

I don't think it's fair to require a "terminal diagnosis," whatever that means. Malignancy? Alzheimer's? MS? SCI? Life is a terminal diagnosis. See how you feel at 90 (or at 80, or 70...) -- you might very well wake up one day, decide you've had enough of it, and be willing and hoping to go peacefully to sleep. Until you've been there, with the infirmities and indignities of great age, I don't think you can judge her decision. Sounds pretty damn good to me, actually.

And yes, I believe that unremitting severe depression and severe unremitting chronic pain meet this criterion, too. It's your body, you get to decide.

The "Don't like abortion? Don't have one" analogy is quite apt.
Your body/your choice. But given that you CAN commit suicide without involving others, should you then involve others?
__________________
༄❀Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society❀༄

Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #7  
Old 11-29-2015, 04:08 PM
GrnTea's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Out in the country
Posts: 900
Thanks: 106
Thanked 294 Times in 225 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Vee View Post
Your body/your choice. But given that you CAN commit suicide without involving others, should you then involve others?
I think it quite likely that if I make it to 90, or were disabled with SCI or MS or Alzheimer's, it would be very hard to get out to do anything independently.
And why the restriction on clinically diagnosed depression, anyway? Who appointed somebody else as guardian? Even someone with severe depression has the right to determine what to do with him/herself. Even people with severe mental illness understand the right to self-determination.
__________________
A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow drafts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again. ... A. Pope

Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society
Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #8  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:05 PM
Ruby Vee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: On a boat on the Chesapeake
Posts: 361
Thanks: 25
Thanked 145 Times in 99 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrnTea View Post
I think it quite likely that if I make it to 90, or were disabled with SCI or MS or Alzheimer's, it would be very hard to get out to do anything independently.
And why the restriction on clinically diagnosed depression, anyway? Who appointed somebody else as guardian? Even someone with severe depression has the right to determine what to do with him/herself. Even people with severe mental illness understand the right to self-determination.
Both my mother and my mother-in-law with Alzheimer's were able to get out to do something independently. Probably, they weren't able to remember and thus accomplish what they got out to do, but getting out didn't seem to be an issue for them.

I'm not questioning that everyone has the right to self determination. Do they have the right to involve others in their choices?
__________________
༄❀Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society❀༄

Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #9  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:05 PM
DutchgirlRN's Avatar
Owner/Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,923
Thanks: 3,899
Thanked 7,713 Times in 4,409 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Default

I don't understand either why someone would pick physician assisted suicide vs taking an overdose (if you are terminally ill, have relentless mental illness, chronic severe pain, etc...)

I suppose you could say that the person would prefer to have their family around them when they die and be able to say "goodbye" formally. I have to remember too that it is very acceptable in Holland.
__________________
Send a private message to DutchgirlRN


Joanna MSN, APRN, FNP-BC

Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
  #10  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:24 PM
GrnTea's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Out in the country
Posts: 900
Thanks: 106
Thanked 294 Times in 225 Posts
My Mood:
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Vee View Post
Both my mother and my mother-in-law with Alzheimer's were able to get out to do something independently. Probably, they weren't able to remember and thus accomplish what they got out to do, but getting out didn't seem to be an issue for them.

I'm not questioning that everyone has the right to self determination. Do they have the right to involve others in their choices?
I think they have the right to ask. And you have the right to refuse to help.
DutchgirlRN and canigraduate like this.
__________________
A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow drafts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again. ... A. Pope

Proud member of the Crusty Old Bat Society
Reply With Quote Go to top
Nursing Forum, Nursing Education, Nursing School, Nursing Chat, Nursing Bulletin Board, Nursing Vent, RN, LPN
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.2.4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

This website is certified by Health On the Net Foundation. Click to verify. This site complies with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health information:
verify here.



Search only trustworthy HONcode health websites:

     
//-->